The 2012 versus 2011 debate continues

Hi Friends of the One Light Group 

I received an email the other day comparing the different dates given by Carl Calleman and Geoff Stray for this “end-time” period.  I have post the 2 sides of the argument below.  It almost appears to be a Religious verses Scientific debate.

I feel the comparison of view points, below,  is definitely worth reading as once again we continue on with our climb, towards the top of the Mythical, ”Pyramid of Life”, as any true Pyramidal Structure represents, as the “”Base Four Corner- Stones of Wisdom eventually rise to a 5^th Dimensional over-view and Phase-change Point.

In comparing my own links and research with both men and their view’s in question below, I now find myself agreeing much more with Geoff Stray’s work in general.

We must remember we are not really talking of Personalities and their Egos here.  We are just seeking to move ever-more ahead from a better understanding of our ‘short comings’ of our past years…..gone by, singularly and collectively.

I personally found Carl to be very defensive, almost fanatical, and closed minded as to embracing new ideas and ‘back up discoveries’ from the Real Harmonic’s Math’s Codes that underlie and under pin all discussions re Cosmic Time Lines and our Planetary Cycles, that were shared with him.

Regarding Carl’s view of October 28^th, 2011, my Heart feeling is that here is one’s chance to get the message to Join the Fold rather than separate self from it with no Hard Headed defence if stances required.  For as he says, Too Much Left Brain approach has been a World Problem for far too long.

Whereas a single read of Geoff Stray’s book “Beyond 2012” shows very clearly the openness of a real Scientific and Mystic mind at work – to seek out the “Ultimate Truths”, whilst being ”attached to no pet theories” from childhood and religious upbringing that need defending.  Thus Stray presents a ”latest overall case” of a “Work in Progress” in a humble yet Brilliant Way.

To deepen our studies, I also have found Geoff’s website to be most informative containing a mountain of open-minded information regarding the Mayan Calender and its vast implications for us all.

So that as the Mayan Calendar suggests, by the end of the Sixth Night we may, in a collective and team effort, have a much better handle on The Big Picture, because, for sure ultimately it is all written in the DNA Book of Revelation WITHIN us all.  Our Ultimate Potential is to join  all of the dots, and then “Rest Somewhat, on the Seventh Day”.

We need to remember that THREE GRAND CYCLES, are closing at a TRANSFORMATIONAL POINT of Singularity in 2011/13, where all NINE HARMONIC BASED CODES IN US, or KARMIC TIME LINE’S, PEAK OUT.

Is this is the much deeper true mystical Meaning of the Star of David.  The inter-face of Cosmic Forces from Above with those Below?

These grand cycles are: 5,125 years in the Mayan Calendar, or 5,184 x 5 = 25,920 – a 25,920 Grand Processional Cycle and a 62 Million Year Cycle.  See www.divinecosmos.com  for details of how  this Trinity dove-tails in with ”The Trinity”  of the LINE-UP of the THREE PLANES.  These are the (1) Plane of our Earth Tilt/spin with the (2) Plane of the Solar System/spin, with the (3) Plane of the Galactic/spin   …….  System.  All three Mesh in Together much like the ”Cogs in the Great Wheel” that is the  ”PHI  basis of the Mayan Calendar”, that was also handed down from earlier cycles of “Wisdom of the Bigger Picture”, of our Inner Harmonic Basic Connection to Cosmic Cycles that indicates growth changes in our DNA.

The Editors note at the end of the article below is indeed a fair comment, though we also must add, to be in the  Middle Ground and Non Judgemental, that Carl’s Books, especially the first one and its “Intro Timing Point”  did indeed fill a notch of ”Expanding Consciousness regarding the Mayan Calendar. 

And so we all may move ever onwards with thanks to all who Contribute their long tough research data to the greater pool of common KNOWINGNESS that is being drawn to Collective Conscious Inner  UNDERSTANDING, in this Present Moment.

Thanking you

Robert

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Calleman Proved Wrong about End Date of Long Count

by Geoff Stray   http://www.atitlansol.com/

Carl Calleman’s theory that the current Long Count cycle ends in 2011 instead of 2012 has been refuted in several ways by Geoff Stray, author of Beyond 2012: Catastrophe or Transformation.   After emailing Stray about our proof Calleman is wrong, he replied with more details. This was Stray’s reply, which is published with his permission. For even more, see Stray’s review of Calleman’s book.
More Proof that Calleman is Wrong
Dear Shay,

Glad you posted this…

Also: POINT 1:    4 Ahau 3 Kankin is going to be Night Lord 9- the one that ended every tun, since there are 9 of them and 9 divides into 360.      However, Oct 28 2011 will be Night Lord 3.

Page 3 of my new essay explains why this is important
-it represents the fully-developed maize seed-head -directly compatible to human development phases -i.e., the evolutionary phase completion will be Night Lord 9 [editor: as seen here], not night lord 3. (See Lords of the Night calculator for proof.)

POINT 2:

Calleman’s statements reveal that he finds the internal correlation between Long Count and Tzolkin to be faulted. However, what he fails to point out is that this implies that EVERY SINGLE MAYA INSCRIPTION IS WRONG! This is because every inscription includes a reference date with Long Count and Tzolkin… this internal correlation is the same for all inscriptions. Correlation between Maya calendars and Gregorian has been much discussed, but nobody has ever questioned internal Long Count/Tzolkin correlation since it is constant and beyond dispute…yet, because it didn’t suit his theory, he implies that every inscription is wrong. I pointed this out to him in a forum in Virginia Beach last year.
I did a talk based on the info expounded in Tortuguero/Nine Gods article referenced above at Virginia, and Calleman was excited because of the number 9 in the Tortuguero prophecy, which he immediately connected to his 9 Underworlds theory…I thought he would! He asked me if I had published anything about this, and I said no, but intended to…and sure enough, within 2 weeks he had produced an article claiming the Tortuguero monument as evidence for his end-date, simply because 9 gods are mentioned. However, he failed to mention that the prophecy, in the very next line, dates the 13.0.0.0.0 date as 4 Ahau, 3 Kankin – i.e. 21 December 2012!…a direct piece of evidence actually pointing out his error – the very opposite to what he states!

Nice work    Thanks!

All the best,    Geoff

This page was posted on 3 Q’at, 2010.

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Calleman Responds to “Calleman Wrong about End Date of Mayan

Long Count Calendar” Article

http://www.atitlansol.com/Theories-2012-Mayan-Calendar/calleman-response-wrong-end-date-maya-calendar.html

(Editor’s Note: This response is published verbatim with the permission of Carl Johan Calleman).
I appreciate that you notice that among the world’s Mayan calendar experts there are some that are basing themselves on hallucinogenic experiences and others that do not. What would also have been pertinent to notice is that among those that are not hallucinogen users I may be the only one, who is a professional scientist.

While self-styled scholars may be both intelligent and creative they usually have never been prompted to acquire the code of honor that comes with paying their dues and subjecting themselves to a qualified mentorship, and this also provides an important background to the current discussions among proclaimed Mayan calendar experts.

On your web site you have published a number of points critical of my work including a purported proof from Geoff Stray that the October 28, 2011 completion date for the Mayan calendar is wrong. This goes back to the fact that Geoff for a long time has supported John Jenkins mechanistic understanding of the Mayan calendar, which promotes the idea that the Mayan Long Count is designed to describe a galactic alignment that ends a precessional cycle of 26000 years and has to end on a solstice day.

This fantasy has been very successfully sold to people to the point that some think that there actually exists something to back it up despite the persistent denial of this by professional astronomers.

What may be the most important to note however is that among the thousands of calendrical inscriptions from the Maya the 26,000 year precessional cycle is not mentioned once and no Mayan text talks about a galactic alignment. As I have pointed out before the galactic alignment idea holds a great risk in that it makes human evolution dependent on some astronomical event outside of our control.

The risk is that in as much as people believe in the galactic alignment fantasy, they will not be living up to their potential role as co-creators in due time. It should then not surprise us that also all the forces that want to back up the current world of hierarchies, including Hollywood, are doing their best to support the December 21, 2012 date. This date thus serves to foster a wait-and-see attitude and to divert the changes that are under way. In this, I think Stray and Jenkins are playing games with the future of humanity because they themselves are well aware of the complete absence of evidence in the Mayan sources for this galactic alignment theory. It is a fantasy generated on modern computer screens and without modern astronomical software no one would ever have come up with such a farfetched idea. Nonetheless, the idea is easy to grasp and a number of people wanting to be seen in the “2012″ context has jumped on this bandwagon without rigorously examining its sources.

What we know for certain from ancient Mayan sources (the books of Chilam Balam) is instead that their prophecies were based on non-astronomical time periods such as the tun and the katun (and almost certainly the baktun and longer cycles, but these were no longer in use when these books were written). According to the ancient inscriptions in, for instance, Palenque, these time periods and their energies (deities as the Maya would say) emanated from the World Tree (or the Heart of the Heavens as contemporary Mayans would say) and not from astronomical cycles in our local solar system.

Mayan vase showing the Seven gods of creation (symbolic of the seven days)

In such a perspective we may for instance understand that the katun in the Long Count with the tzolkin energy of 4 Ahau (AD 20-40) did have a special energy (we know from history that this is the energy that brought the teaching of Christ) and so there is no reason to be surprised that this tzolkin energy was celebrated as a Burner day. Without a reality background in historical processes discussions of the different celebrations of tzolkin energies are however completely meaningless and lead into a world of abstract calendar mathematics. My own work is instead based on the actual evolutionary processes of the universe and how these are related to the prophetic tradition of the Maya emphasizing the thirteen energies of baktuns, katuns and tuns etc including the seven days of creation.

This work has resulted in a series of books where the actual phenomena in the universe, biological historical or otherwise, are understood from quantum shifts emanating from the Cosmic Tree of Life. These arguments are not speculative, but supported by massive empirical evidence. Long time Mayan calendar expert, author and publisher Barbara Hand Clow has on this basis referred to my most recent book The Purposeful Universe as “possibly the most important book that has ever been written” and others have come to concur with this assessment.

Stray on the other hand, who has more or less painted himself into a corner by zealously supporting Jenkins computer based fantasy, trashes my work, for the singular reason that he thinks that its “end date” is wrong. I think he really knows better, but he has for a long time been criticizing my reality-based approach and may not find it easy to detach himself from this. He thus chooses to sacrifice all meaningful understanding of how the Mayan calendar describes the evolution of consciousness at nine levels each driven by seven pulses of light (seven gods of creation) and tries to prop up the galactic alignment idea. Since the galactic alignment fantasy cannot be verified by historical events, it is thus no wonder that Stray and Jenkins never make predictions based on the Mayan calendar.

Wisely so, I must say, since if they were to base predictions on the December 21, 2012 end date these would invariably turn out to be wrong. Also in this Jenkins and Stray deviate from the very spirit of the prophetic tradition of the ancient Maya, who used their calendar to understand coming time periods and not as abstract mathematical structures. I, on the other hand, can credit myself to some very significant predictions in my books, published years in advance, that have later turned out to be correct. Very notable is for instance, the prediction of the precise timing of when the economic downturn would begin, which was based on the October 28, 2011 date. It is important to realize that this would not have been possible if I had been relying on the Hollywood-approved end date of December 21, 2012.

This brings up the question what we are supposed to have the Mayan calendar for. Is it to understand our place in the universe and its future or is it just an abstract tool without any connection to reality as it seems to be to some? I personally think that if we are to approach the future with realism we will have to give up silly fault finding games and look primarily at the evidence for connections between the Mayan calendar and historical reality.

Over the past century there have been many suggestions as to what the end date of the Izapan Long Count may be and like Stray I would also place this at December 21, 2012 (meaning that Geoff’s argument about invalidating the dating of old inscriptions is completely erroneous and he should know this himself). The determination of the accurate “end date” can however only be based on an understanding of how the Mayan calendar system works in its totality and how it maps out the evolution of consciousness.

The point to realize is then that the December 21, 2012 date is not the energetic end date when all the nine waves of evolution (the nine-step god, Bolon Yokte, symbolized by the nine-step pyramid) will be manifesting fully, which instead is October 28, 2011. While an attempt was made in Palenque almost a thousand years after the Izapan Long Count had been established, it proved impossible to correct such a strong tradition accordingly.

Bolon Yokte, the nine-step god with the nine waves of evolution.

A valid parallel to this is that it would today be absolutely impossible to change the day we celebrate Christmas, even though we now know that Jesus was not born on December 25. Not a long time ago some orthodox and dogmatic Christians would probably have defended the idea that Jesus was born on December 25 with the same zealousness as Stray and Jenkins now defend the December 21, 2012 date simply because according to a strong tradition Christmas is celebrated on that day. But while the error in the birthday of Jesus may be of relatively little importance to us today the same cannot be said about the completion date of the Mayan calendars, which may be the most consequential question of our time.

It is thus very high time that people claiming to be Maya calendar experts start discussing this in terms of the prophetic time periods, tuns, katuns, baktuns etc that the Maya were actually using. Without such a common ground there is simply no meaningful basis for discussing the end date. If the reality connection of the Mayan calendar through these time periods is thrown out all of its meaning to our current time is simply lost.
Carl Johan Calleman

Editor’s Comment:  It is reassuring to see that the top two 2012 theorists, Jenkins and Calleman agree on the true end date of the Long Count: as Calleman says here, “…like Stray I would also place this at December 21, 2012.”

However, it remains difficult to see how Monument 6 at Tortuguero could be interpreted to mean anything other than that Bolon, the god or gods of nine, will return on that same date-the only date on the monument-rather than in 2011.

At the same time, even if Calleman is wrong about the significance of October 28, 2011, that does not mean that his entire theory about the Mayan calendar is wrong. Like others – even some of the total nut cases out there- he has at least a piece of the puzzle, and it may turn out to be a big piece.

Shay Addams

 

 

The Prophets Conference is sticking with Dec 21, 2012

http://greatmystery.org/nl/vancouver2012predictions.html

One of our respected sources of information on the subject is Geoff Stray who has been collecting the vast amounts of data relating to the 2012 phenomena since 1982. Far from confining his research to the Maya, who provide the most prominent predictions indicating this date will herald significant changes for humanity, he has studied the prophetic traditions of other cultures-including the Tibetan, Chinese, Jewish, Ethiopian, and tribal cultures around the globe-to show the kind of convergence of cosmic purposes happening along a number of parallel tracks. Stray has extensively studied many modern theories, including Terence McKenna’s Timewave Zero and Maurice Cotterell’s sunspot research. Stray maintains the website Diagnosis 2012, the most comprehensive database available on 2012. He is also the best selling author of Beyond 2012: Catastrophe or Awakening?

For clarity, may we suggest that you read the following piece by Geoff Stray regarding Calleman and his self proclaimed Mayan dates.  Geoff Stray

Geoff Stray Shows Calleman’s Calendar Wrong, His Predictions Fizzle

and Fail

Editor’s Note: This is Geoff Stray’s follow-up to Carl Johan Calleman’s response to our first

“Calleman is wrong” page in the 2012 section of this site.

 http://www.atitlansol.com/Theories-2012-Mayan-Calendar/Calleman-calendar-wrong-predictions-fizzleandfail.html

Carl proudly speaks of the “code of honour” of academics, before launching into a series of personal remarks about myself and John Major Jenkins, accusing us of “playing games with the future of humanity”; and others, which I won’t bother listing, but I am sure that the reader will have got a certain impression of dual standards here.

This sense of double standards was also evident in an article that Carl spammed around the inter-net last year, then printed out and provided to every conference-goer at the Virginia Beach ARE conference. This is the article, The Risks of Believing.

It starts off by pretending that John Major Jenkins is a Doomsday fanatic, simply because his interviews were unfairly edited by lying film producers, who had given assurances that the interviews would not be used to promote a doomsday angle. Carl knows very well that JMJ’s stance has never been catastrophic, so what are we to make of this “code of honour”? Here is the link to Jenkins’ article explaining this.
No Mayanist Supports Calleman Theory

Carl speaks of other people’s fantasies, but he cannot find one single academic Mayanist to support his ideas. This is evident in the side links here, where the Swedish Mayanist John Normark slams Carl’s calendar. In the history of Maya studies, over the last 100 years, we find that all the most significant discoveries and jumps in understanding have been made by researchers without the academic credentials. Carl constantly is making reference to his Phd in Physical Biology, and this may give his writing on evolution some clout, but when he gets away from pure biology, his Phd is as significant as a cycling proficiency test. However, it is also true that the possession of the letters after the name does seem to contribute to a feeling of elitism and superiority that gives an apparent license to patronize those who are not members.

Carl proudly speaks of his prophecy that the financial collapse would start at the start of the “Fifth Night” on 18/19 November 2007. However, he admits that this prediction is 6 weeks out, since economists agree it began at the start of January 2008. He criticizes JMJ and myself for not making predictions, but we don’t claim to be prophets, whereas Carl started calling himself “Jaguar Prophet of Our Time”.
More Calleman Financial Predictions Fail to Materialize

His acid-test prophecy was announced at the Virginia conference, and also in his “The Risks of BelievingŠ” article linked above. He predicted that at the start of the “Sixth Night” on November 7th 2009, the US dollar would collapse, “triggered by a demoralizing political event”.
Well, here we are in June 2010, over 7 months into the “Sixth Night”-well over halfway through it-and Carl’s smoking gun prophecy has fizzled out. If the dollar collapses now, Carl will probably claim it as proof that he is right, but the prophecy has actually failed.

I asked Carl, during the forum, whether he would modify his theories if his prophecy failed to come true. He mumbled, no, he wouldn’tŠno surprise there.

Long Count Dates on Monument 6 Contain Astronomical Correlations

Maya epigraphers Michael Grofe and Barbara Macleod have independently found evidence that the Maya were tracking precession – Grofe in the Dresden Codex, and Macleod on a carved bone from Tikal. In fact, there is an avalanche of astronomical correlations in the 13 dates of Tortuguero Monument 6, currently being decoded by Mayanists . This does not fit in with Carl’s theory since he has pronounced that the Long Count has nothing to do with astronomical cycles. In his talk, he had all the cycles on display when he announced this, including the one day cycle…if that’s not an astronomical cycle, then it would be an amazing coincidence that the spiritual cycles of the entire universe (according to him) are based around exactly one Earth day.
Astronomical cycles that relate to Maya calendars:

1. All their calendars were based around a day, which is one circuit of the Earth around the Sun.
2. Three Tzolkins is exactly one Mars synodic year (3 x 260=780)
3. Eight haabs is exactly five Venus synodic years (8 x 365 = 5 x 584)
4. 46 Tzolkins = 405 lunar months
5. 59 Tzolkins = 42 tropical years
6. 135 Tzolkins = 88 Jupiter synodic years
7. 137 Tzolkins = 61 Venus synodic years
8. Twenty 819-day cycles = 21 Mars synodic years
9. Six 819-day cycles = 13 Saturn synodic years
10. Nineteen 819-day cycles = 39 Jupiter synodic years
11. 96 Tzolkins = 65 thirteen-month lunar years
12. 4 Tzolkins = 3 Eclipse years
13. One 13-tun cycle = 6 Mars synodic years = 18 Tzolkins
14. TWO 13-tun cycles = 27 Eclipse years
15. 39 Uinals = one Mars synodic year
16. Five 13-baktun cycles = one precession cycle.

The Calleman Calendar is a mish-mash of material-the six nights and seven days of creation are from the book of Genesis, along with his Garden of Eden and Tree of Life material and there is input from other parts of the Bible, such as The book of Revelation- this is one of the reasons for the appeal, especially in the States, where large parts of the population expect Jesus to return soon, saving the harvested 144,000 elect and burning the rest like weeds. This is the part that Carl fails to address-the catastrophe that is secretly lurking in this theory is that of the billions of people who not only suffer an agonizing death, but burn in hell for all eternity, while the “144,000″ Callemanites all go to Heaven.
Carl states that the advocates of a 2012 end to the 13-baktun cycle are in effect saying, “do not prepare yourself for the new world now-wait until the shift comes, December 21, 2012″. Well presumably he hasn’t heard that JMJ says the Galactic Alignment will not all culminate on one day-he expects the effects to be spread over years, and also recommends Vipassna meditation as a preparation, and does not imply we should wait.

I have also suggested many times that I don’t expect it all to culminate on 21 December 2012, but throughout that whole year and the following 2 years, and that people should start now with their self-development work, in order to address negative emotions such as fear and anger responses and other shadow material. In fact, it is in this area that I think the nine underworlds are to be understood – as nine levels of internal shadow realms containing our deep complexes and anxieties that must be addressed before our higher selves can emerge.
Geoff Stray
June 9, 2010

Editor’s Note: After reading Calleman’s first two books twice, my interpretation is that Calleman is an advocate of Intelligent Design whose real agenda is to use the Maya calendar to prove the Christian existence of God.
Additional Reading: http://alignment2012.com/eldersand2012.html